Color, a general discussion

[Ben Egbert]

Color

I think fixing color in Photoshop is fairly easy once you learn a few tricks and there are many ways to do it. The tough part for me is to know when color correction is needed and when it is correct. I can think of three schools of thought on the subject.

1. Try to match the true colors in some sort of idealized natural light, otherwise fix the color casts that are caused by factors like clouds, sunrise, or incandescent lights for example. This often involves solving the problem of multiple and different light sources.

2. Try to match exactly what you saw in person, which probably includes some casts caused by the light source, like red mountains, or shadows.

3. Forget both of the above and make the colors what you want them to be, IE pleasing to you. This may involve over saturation or boosting certain shades.

In addition to all this, we have color acuity of the observer. I actually have good acuity in that I can separate out adjacent colors on a color chart with a fair degree of accuracy. But early onset cataracts which add a yellow filter, cause a shift in whatever direction a yellow filter moves the color spectrum.

I have a friend who takes a mathematical approach to color correction, but for most of us, we are limited by our own subjective color sense.

This is meant to spur a general discussion on the subject. Fix any misconceptions I have, add your own ideas and solutions.

 

[Kyle Jones]

For the most part, I aim for color casts. I wake up early to be on location for sunrise because I want that warm light bathing my scene (or that cool blue hour light). I'm not going to neutralize that cast, although I may tone it down so it isn't a distraction. Similarly I expect areas in the shade to be bluer than those in the light.

So roll all that together and more often than not I guess I end up in your category 3 - I'm going to process to my vision.

 

[Ben Egbert]

Thanks for your reply Kyle, I guess I am also in catagory 3, but then I have a lot of self doubt about colors in my presentations.

 

[AlanLichty]

For now I am still in the #2 camp and relying on my eyes and memory to reconstruct what I think my camera should have recorded. I fully reserve the right to tweak that to what I imagined as a composition/exposure when I was setting up to shoot so I have to qualify my category as straddling #2 and #3. I hate check boxes when I am describing rainbows.....

 

[JimFox]

Hey Ben,

An interesting question/thought.

I like your breakdown, but I think #3 has 2 options. Since there is 2 totally opposed directions that #3 can take, I think it needs to be split out.

3A. Process it according to what I find pleasing in the most natural way possible.

3B. Process to please the Instagram crowd which means oversaturating and creating an image that is no longer natural looking.



Myself, I start as #2 like Alan with the intent to end up at 3A.

 

[Ben Egbert]

Jim, Alan, good replies and thanks for adding the options for 3.

One thing I do on site is look at the display and compare it to the actual scene. I usually find the brightest of my brackets match the main parts of the scene, and the darkest one the areas that will be blown in the other one. But I also look at color and find it is usually a bit under saturated compared to what i see.

I am reminded of the film days when I put an 85B warming filter on for fall pictures. If it was Kodachrome, it came back from the lab as I intended it because the lab could not change it. If it was Ectachrome, they would correct it to neutral grey and my filter effect was gone.

Maybe this is a factor in my prefering over saturated processing.

 

[JimFox]

Since our raw images by default have color that is usually duller then what we actually saw, being able to remember what the colors looked like when we shot is important. It's also why I think it can be easy to increase the color more then what was initially at the scene we shot because as our memory fades perhaps it's natural to think of a scene as looking better then it was? Not sure, just speculating.

Anyway, this is a great topic you brought up Ben. It's something important to think about both for the seasoned photographer and the photographer who is still learning the ropes. How we handle the light and the color of a scene are two very important decisions as we process our photos.

 

[BarryHamilton]

Interesting and important topic for photographers. I think over the years our tastes evolve and we look at scenes differently.
I've always tried for natural color and contrasts. Sometimes I think it's more difficult, requiring more time and care, to produce a natural scene, with true colors and contrasts, than it is for some of the 'instagram crowd', as Jim put it, to just crank up the saturation and contrasts and call it good.
I think I'd be in camp #2, with a some of Jim's 3A as well. I do want natural, real color, but I'm not afraid to add a wee bit of artistic touch.
I agree with Kyle's comment that shadows are usually bluer, cooler, than highlights. It's a little detail that can make a huge difference in an image.

 

[Ben Egbert]

Thanks Jim and Barry for the additional remarks. It made me think about why I posted this. It's not to justify my way of doing stuff or anything else. But it has been a frustration of mine for a long time.

When I get an image processed to taste I almost always pull back the saturation because I just know it will be too much. But it almost always is still too much evenb after the pullback. I need some additional calibration.

 

[AlanLichty]

I have heard this said many times and still find it helpful - once you have processed one of your images set it aside and go do something else. Come back to it later or the next day and look again and see if you still agree with your last edit. I frequently find myself heading back into edits to make some alterations.

 

[Ben Egbert]

I have heard this said many times and still find it helpful - once you have processed one of your images set it aside and go do something else. Come back to it later or the next day and look again and see if you still agree with your last edit. I frequently find myself heading back into edits to make some alterations.

I go further than that. I print it, sometimes 2-3 times with mods in between. I also do other steps. I have separete desaturation actions for R G B Y M and run them to see any changes. I then use Hue/saturation and crank it up with the slider all the way and watch to see which colors go neon early in the slider movement. Then I leave it on my background for a while and see if it holds up after a few days.

 

[Kyle Jones]

Two things I'm in the habit of doing...

1) as a last step in my editing I generally create a color balance layer and I play with the sliders to see if minor tweaks to the color look better to me or worse. Sometimes I'll create separate color balance layers masked for the sky and the ground.

2) I put the images on my phone, my tablet, and a rotating wallpaper folder on my work computer. Looking at them over time on different devices really helps me see what bothers me in an image (and there's always something). If the color bothers me, I can go back to that color balance layer for adjustments.

 

[JimFox]

I like what Kyle said about putting the image on multiple devices and viewing it also. For years now I have had a gallery on Pbase, and while I am not as diligent as I used to be, I would first post my finished work on Pbase to be able to see it from a pretty neutral base on other computers, phones, etc. If I was up in the air as to how the final look should be, often involving color, I would post both versions there so I could go back and forth and look at them.

I guess this, I should of wrote first. But I also do what Alan suggests, I almost always sleep on a photo I am editing. I will be working on it, and leave it up, and then in the morning come back with a fresh set of eyes and view it again. Almost always, what I thought was a finished version the night before will require more edits in the morning. Typically this for me is a 2 or 3 day process.

 

[Ben Egbert]

Great suggestions on using more than one monitor. I have a 4k wide gamut NEC for my processing and a sRGB Dell monitor for the other in my dual monitor set up. I have both loaded with the image I am working on. They look different of course between sRGB and wide gamut. But I always assume most people will be seeing the sRGB version on the web.

In the end, I think posting them here for comment will be what helps the most because its a matter of visual judgement. Some people have perfect pitch (musically), nost don't and some are tone deaf. I think I fit the latter catagory with respect to color.

 

[BarryHamilton]

One of the best things I've recently started doing is to create camera color profiles for most shooting conditions. I use the Color Checker Passport and it's incredibly easy and I can tell the difference in the color accuracy for the scenes.
I had always done it by eye before, but this really streamlines the process.

 

[Ben Egbert]

Thanks Barry, I have the color checker passport too.

 

[Jeffrey]

Huge topic. Don't know where to start, but I'll try. To me, each scene, and resultant image, somehow tells me what it wants to be, from no color at all the way to 'pump it up'. I don't have a set 'profile' or 'look' that I generally apply to everything, though I often like to start at a place I call photo-realism, and alter to taste from there. Of course, all this is going on in my own head even though I said the image instructs me. The image actually invokes an emotional response from me, and it becomes my job to use my color tools (and all others, of course) to satisfy or fulfill that response to satisfaction. I often find my route once I've left the trailhead. Sometimes not for months, or after a few less than satisfying attempts. I'm only talking about post processing here, and there is a lot that has already been thought of end evaluated at the scene of the crime.

 

[Ben Egbert]

Huge topic. Don't know where to start, but I'll try. To me, each scene, and resultant image, somehow tells me what it wants to be, from no color at all the way to 'pump it up'. I don't have a set 'profile' or 'look' that I generally apply to everything, though I often like to start at a place I call photo-realism, and alter to taste from there. Of course, all this is going on in my own head even though I said the image instructs me. The image actually invokes an emotional response from me, and it becomes my job to use my color tools (and all others, of course) to satisfy or fulfill that response to satisfaction. I often find my route once I've left the trailhead. Sometimes not for months, or after a few less than satisfying attempts. I'm only talking about post processing here, and there is a lot that has already been thought of end evaluated at the scene of the crime.

Thanks Jeffrey, great reply. I often have the scene in my mind before I leave home

But I have images from 2008 that have been worked over and over, some this year. My photoshop skills increase, and I think my color judgement is too but very slowly.

 

[Kyle Jones]

Huge topic. Don't know where to start, but I'll try. To me, each scene, and resultant image, somehow tells me what it wants to be, from no color at all the way to 'pump it up'. I don't have a set 'profile' or 'look' that I generally apply to everything, though I often like to start at a place I call photo-realism, and alter to taste from there. Of course, all this is going on in my own head even though I said the image instructs me. The image actually invokes an emotional response from me, and it becomes my job to use my color tools (and all others, of course) to satisfy or fulfill that response to satisfaction. I often find my route once I've left the trailhead. Sometimes not for months, or after a few less than satisfying attempts. I'm only talking about post processing here, and there is a lot that has already been thought of end evaluated at the scene of the crime.

Well put - and this sounds similar to my approach. I tend to have a vision in my mind when I snap the shutter, including how I think I might process it. Once I sit down at the computer, all that may easily change. One of my first steps is usually to pick a white balance. My default import setting is for adobe's daylight setting. I'll look at that, at "as shot" (I usually shoot in auto WB for this purpose), and adobe auto just to see what they look like. I may try setting it to a cloudy or shade preset as well. Having seen all that, I'll move the slider around. While I like to think that I don't stray too far from a natural look, sometimes I see something in this exercise that I really want to pursue (this one will be blue!). Sometimes I feel like the image is my guide and I just have to let it lead me.

 

[Jeffrey]

Well put - and this sounds similar to my approach. I tend to have a vision in my mind when I snap the shutter, including how I think I might process it. Once I sit down at the computer, all that may easily change. One of my first steps is usually to pick a white balance. My default import setting is for adobe's daylight setting. I'll look at that, at "as shot" (I usually shoot in auto WB for this purpose), and adobe auto just to see what they look like. I may try setting it to a cloudy or shade preset as well. Having seen all that, I'll move the slider around. While I like to think that I don't stray too far from a natural look, sometimes I see something in this exercise that I really want to pursue (this one will be blue!). Sometimes I feel like the image is my guide and I just have to let it lead me.

Yes to all you wrote, Kyle. I'm sure many of us are on the same page here.