TSE lens

BarryHamilton

Founding Member
Ok, guys! AlanLichty, ckcarr, and any others out there, you have me thinking more about a TSE lens for my Canon 5DmIV. I think I want one for panos but especially maximum dof.
I would appreciate any tips or suggestions you might have.
i.e. Preferred focal length? Would you be comfortable picking up a used one? Any off brands worth considering?
 

AlanLichty

Moderator
I am a happy camper with a Canon 24mm TS-E. I have the so called second generation that allows the tilt axis and shift axis to be rotated independently to match what you are trying to shoot. I don't think Canon had the 17mm out when I got mine but 24mm seems fine to me since I can shoot wider than 24mm with a shift panorama sequence. I might even be able to go wider than a 17mm - I would have to test that sometime.

Everything you do with the TSE requires you to do manual focus using Live View on your camera. You camera's auto focus has no idea what to do with the lens and neither does any of our usual post processing software. Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop can read the EXIF data but won't acknowledge what it is or how to calibrate for it.
 

BarryHamilton

Founding Member
I am a happy camper with a Canon 24mm TS-E. I have the so called second generation that allows the tilt axis and shift axis to be rotated independently to match what you are trying to shoot. I don't think Canon had the 17mm out when I got mine but 24mm seems fine to me since I can shoot wider than 24mm with a shift panorama sequence. I might even be able to go wider than a 17mm - I would have to test that sometime.

Everything you do with the TSE requires you to do manual focus using Live View on your camera. You camera's auto focus has no idea what to do with the lens and neither does any of our usual post processing software. Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop can read the EXIF data but won't acknowledge what it is or how to calibrate for it.
Thanks for the quick reply, Alan. I do virtually everything manually focusing so that's no problem.
Have you any experience with the longer focal lengths? I'm concerned the 24 is too wide for a lot of my landscape shooting and wouldn't be able to spend enough to get all three Canon TSEs. I've seen good stuff on the 24, not much on the 45 or 90.
 

JimFox

Moderator
Staff member
Hey Barry, I got the 24mm Nikon TSE, but I hate that it isn’t 17mm... i shoot 95% of my shots at 16mm, so to go backwards to a smaller frame with the 24mm is really very hard for me. The one thing I am jealous with Canon is that they have a 17mm TSE and Nikon doesn’t. Nikon finally has released a 19mm TSE which I think they sell for like $50,000 or some insane amount.

So my suggestion is get the TSE focal length that matches what you shoot most. With Canon, you have the luxury of matching it.

Jim
 

AlanLichty

Moderator
First stuff I saw that used a TSE shift for a panorama was a 90mm. It was a close in scene like some of my forest stuff but a bit limited for my needs. This is dependent on where you are shooting - for me in the NW woods you are frequently close to your subject so the shorter lens was my sweet spot. So far this has worked well for me. 90mm would cut out most of my frame.

I can't afford more of them so I try to work my shots to match the one I have.
 

Kyle Jones

Moderator
I recently bought the 17mm and have been practicing with it. Love it so far. I'll be taking it into battle next weekend. I often shoot really wide and I've heard it works well with the 1.4x extender to replicate a 24mm if I want to zoom in a little more.
 

AlanLichty

Moderator
I recently bought the 17mm and have been practicing with it. Love it so far. I'll be taking it into battle next weekend. I often shoot really wide and I've heard it works well with the 1.4x extender to replicate a 24mm if I want to zoom in a little more.
Hmm - I have never tried my 2x extender on my 24mm but it does fit (I just tried it). Never even thought about that before.....
 

JimFox

Moderator
Staff member
Hmm - I have never tried my 2x extender on my 24mm but it does fit (I just tried it). Never even thought about that before.....
Yeah, that's interesting. I never even thought of using an extender on the TSE. I would never need it, but it's definitely an interesting thought.

Jim
 

ckcarr

Founding Member
The new generation of Canon TS-E lenses look great, especially that tilt/shift/rotate ability without removing any screws. Its expected that Nikon will upgrade theirs in the next fifteen years or so...

The reason some might use a 45mm and pan it versus a 24mm standalone is simply pixels and to some extent distortion on the wider lens.

I have the original three Nikons, but the 19mm is out of the question for now at $3,200. I originally bought the 24mm PC-E because I was frustrated with the towers in the desert, like Marlboro point, where no matter what they were always tilted. And then I ended up with all three because after the tsunami I was worried that I wouldn't be able to get them anymore, there was a shortage of many Nikon lenses - so I blew too much cash at that point in time to get the set. These days I'm now using the 45mm PC-E Nikon more than my 24mm or 85mm just because it works well for me. And I'm also not trying to go as wide as possible all the time. But that could change tomorrow. If I'm shooting landscapes those three lenses are usually all I take... It feels so light compared to that Sigma 150-600 Sport...

If you're into panoramas, and once you've used it, you'll begin to feel that the only proper way to create panoramas is to combine the lens with a leveling kit and then a quality panning platform from Really Right Stuff (Pano elements kit $380) or others (if any exist). I found using the lenses tilt/shift mechanisms standalone too cumbersome to create panoramas consistently and accurately. But that also depends on your own personal threshold for finger manipulation, little knobs etc. Personally, I would bump the tripod, or a knob would loosen, and the lens would tilt down completely ruining focus, lots of things go wrong. Then you get home and go "Arggg!" With the Pano Elements kit, it becomes so easy, you pre-frame your shot, remember the index marks on the base, and then just rotate the base to (for example) the 30, 60, 90 degree marks and fire off the shot. That way you don't touch the camera, the settings, the lens, or bump anything. However, since I'm also not shooting panos that much anymore, I use the PC-E and leveling/pano kit to keep everything perfectly level in the shot, and then compose it with the shift and the leveling base . I also re-aligned my shift and tilt onto the same axis since Nikon doesn't come that way.

It's kind of an expensive "investment" (Ha such a funny word) though if you don't have anything to shoot on a regular basis or a reason to use that type lens. So, I'm not telling you to buy anything - until your sure it's for you. And, you have to go through a learning curve to start shooting right. The below link is required reading IMO ! Sure, a PC-E or TS-E lens can be slapped on the camera, focused, and you fire away, but the learned skill becomes getting the plane of focus sharp and at much lower apertures, and getting creative with the lens. I now usually shoot at f/5.6 or even f/4 rather than f/11 or f/16.

One other thing too, that's a little important is that if you are not good at manually focusing, or your eyes are getting worse as we all age, these may not be the best lenses to invest in. Just saying...

This information is excellent from Cambridge in Color:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/tilt-shift-lenses1.htm

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/tilt-shift-lenses2.htm




What was the question...?

Oh, buying a used one? Not sure about Canon, but with Nikon they always come up for around $1,000 less than MSRP and typically can be found brand new in the box. People buy, try, and then put on the shelf...
 

Ben Egbert

Forum Helper
Staff member
I had the Canon 25TSEmk2 and later the 17TSE mk2. I sold the 24 to fund the 17, as 24 was not wide enough. The 24 was perhaps the sharpest non telephoto I ever owned. But the 24-70 f2.8 MK2 is so close stopped down and so much more versatile that I could do without it.

I used the 17TSE extensively, I even built my own filter adaptor which is documented someplace at FM. I managed to make a lot of images using the Lee nd grad system which introduced color cast. But after getting the 5DSR, I found I no longer needed ND grads and sold the whole kit as a package with the 17TSE.

The reason I sold the 17TSE is unique to me. I can't manual focus to save my soul. The 17 is a great lens, and when I naild focus, I had some super sharp images. But when the 11-24 came out with AF and low distortion and excellent sharpness, I sold the 17 to fund it.

I never used the tilt function of the 17, but shift was a great feature as it allowed me to keep the camera level and shift for putting the horizon off center. I also thought a 14 TSE with just the shift function and no tilt would be a great lens.

One thing I learned towards the end of the 17 usage was field curvature. If I focused about 1/3 up and to the extreme right or left side of the image, it got the edges sharper and at f8 or higher, DOF covered the rest of the image. I use this same trick to some extent with the 11-24, which has less field curvature, but enough to make some difference.

The 11-24 has more CA than the 17TSE, but is much better at flare. In fact it is better than any lens I have owned.

Last year I bought a RRS pano rail and now I am doing super WA with my 24-70 in vertical mode at usually 35mm. I have considered getting a 35 f1.4 mk2 prime for this purpose and would then have a good astro lens.
 

ckcarr

Founding Member
Speaking of, I see on the FM buy/sell there is actually a Really Right Stuff pano kit for sale right now. I've never seen one there before. It possibly won't last long.
 

MonikaC

Well-Known Member
I have the Canon 24mm TS-E. I'd rented the 17mm, but between the bulbous front element & just finding that the 24mm was a better landscape size, I got the 24mm. The reviews on the 45mm haven't been so great. I have thought about the 90mm for more compression, but am really happy with the 24mm. And then there's the cost & they're heavy lenses...... I particularly like it for wildflower shots since the flowers tend to blow around & focus stacking can be a nightmare because of that. You could rent all of them & try them out.
 

JimFox

Moderator
Staff member
I had the Canon 25TSEmk2 and later the 17TSE mk2. I sold the 24 to fund the 17, as 24 was not wide enough. The 24 was perhaps the sharpest non telephoto I ever owned. But the 24-70 f2.8 MK2 is so close stopped down and so much more versatile that I could do without it.

I used the 17TSE extensively, I even built my own filter adaptor which is documented someplace at FM. I managed to make a lot of images using the Lee nd grad system which introduced color cast. But after getting the 5DSR, I found I no longer needed ND grads and sold the whole kit as a package with the 17TSE.

The reason I sold the 17TSE is unique to me. I can't manual focus to save my soul. The 17 is a great lens, and when I naild focus, I had some super sharp images. But when the 11-24 came out with AF and low distortion and excellent sharpness, I sold the 17 to fund it.

I never used the tilt function of the 17, but shift was a great feature as it allowed me to keep the camera level and shift for putting the horizon off center. I also thought a 14 TSE with just the shift function and no tilt would be a great lens.

One thing I learned towards the end of the 17 usage was field curvature. If I focused about 1/3 up and to the extreme right or left side of the image, it got the edges sharper and at f8 or higher, DOF covered the rest of the image. I use this same trick to some extent with the 11-24, which has less field curvature, but enough to make some difference.

The 11-24 has more CA than the 17TSE, but is much better at flare. In fact it is better than any lens I have owned.

Last year I bought a RRS pano rail and now I am doing super WA with my 24-70 in vertical mode at usually 35mm. I have considered getting a 35 f1.4 mk2 prime for this purpose and would then have a good astro lens.
Hey Ben, that's interesting to see your travel between the various lenses. One word of thought on your last statement about the 35 f1.4 for astro work. I have thought about that once in a while or had even thought of like a 20 f1.8, but the longer the lens the shorter time you can shoot before the stars move too much. So basically for me, the extra amount of light doesn't compensate for the loss the time in an exposure.

Now, I do know some guys that do seem to make that work, but for me besides the loss of time, I am just too stuck with wanting to always shoot ultra wide. So the solution for me came when Sigma released the 14mm f1.8. I can not say enough good things about that lens.

Jim
 

Ben Egbert

Forum Helper
Staff member
Thanks Jim, I think the ISO has improved so much that I can move from my old limit of 3200 for night shots. I have used my UW at f4 many times. I had a Samyung 14 for a while, and did some night work with it, but noise was always the killer.

I am not really a night person so I really have to stretch myself for it, but I do a lot of panos and a 35 is about optimum for that.
 

AlanLichty

Moderator
I would like to reiterate one aspect to shooting with a TSE lens - this lens is almost entirely mechanical and as such being able to use Live View to focus your images is not an optional step. Unless you have the eyes of an eagle (pretty rare for older humans) there is no way you can fine tune a capture through your viewfinder.

For those who are shooting in open desert environments the next issue is being able to use that Live View screen in bright lighting conditions. I tried using mine once at Valley of Fire during non-ideal lighting conditions and couldn't see the Live View screen at all. I finally put the lens back in its case and gave up. I got a HoodMan loupe before my next trip that now lets me work the Live View screen even in bright sunshine.
 

ckcarr

Founding Member
Maybe that's a difference between Canon and Nikon. I only focus using live view.

I'll zoom my live view 100-200 % and then focus exactly on a detail somewhere in the framing that I like.
Some people have complained about the Nikon screen, but I've never had a problem with it. I think they are just the chronic complainers...

Then it becomes the iterative process between focus far and then tilt close... until it's as good as it gets...
 

Ben Egbert

Forum Helper
Staff member
Back when I first started with TSE lenses I had a 1DSmk3, which did not have live view focus. It was not until I went to the 5dmk3 that I had LVF and it made a world of difference.
 

AlanLichty

Moderator
Nikon might have a better Live View than Canon. I usually manually focus all of my shots using Live View on my Canon bodies (5dmkII and 6d) but in bright sunshine the Live View screen is almost unusable. Until I got the Hoodman Loupe which covers the Live View screen to give me portable shade I had to switch to autofocus and leave my TS-E in it's belt case when the sun overwhelmed things.

The sun conditions I was describing for Valley of Fire were extreme and it almost hurt my eyes to take my sunglasses off. Not particularly good light for photography at all but it was the last day of a Death Valley trip for four northwesties before flying home the next day and we were trying to maximize our opportunities.
 
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